Walt Well, it just the second verse of what we have already heard here before and discussed thoroughly unless you've forgotten - Quite frankly, I know of many Methodists who would disagree, and most certainly some Liberation Theologians who would take issue with this very subjective, not objective opinion. Some highlights from that old link - The United Methodist Church was for slavery, and against the civil war, and it caused a split in the Methodist Church, that's why you have the Wesleyan Church today! Had not military action been taken to free Martin Luther, the Catholic Church would have end him for translating the Vulgate into the German Vernacular of the day, like they did others before him. Had the Protestant Reformation not gotten off the ground in Germany during Martin Luther's day, it's highly unlikely Henry the Eighth could have split the Protestant Anglican Church away from the Catholic Church, without a major war on his hands, and an England that would have ended up being controlled by the Spaniards. Without the Anglican Church, you would have neither the Methodist Church, which separated from the Anglican Church after the Revolutionary War of 1776, and you would have no Episcopal Church, which is what the Anglican Church in America renamed itself. It's highly unlikely you'd have the any of the many Protestant Church's and cults (Unitarians) leaving Europe to come to America, because there would have been no concept of religious freedom since the Catholic Church still would have dominated the Spanish Colonies in the new world, since you'd have no England without a Protestant Anglican Church. If we retro-fitted this teaching that Rev. Winkler now so freely espouses, there wouldn't be a Methodist Church today, because no military action would have ever been taken to establish not only the Protestant Reformation, but there would have never been a precedent set for America to declare its independence, because they would not have had the Protestant teachings and examples to do so, and we would all be speaking Spanish today, and fearing the Pope would excommunicate us, and we'd all be damned to hell, because we dared to oppose King, Country, or Church insbreastution. Clinton knew of 911 attacks 287Well, the lefties aren't exactly akin to Bin Laden and other terror-minded people. It's just that the left likes to sit on... But it's nice to see Rev. Winkler has taken the time to look at his logic through the lens of total Protestant Christian History, and not just narrowed it down from 1960 to the present! Surely, such a liberal man of God is not that narrow minded? "We cannot become what we need to be by remaining what we are!" - Max DuPree Commodore Socrates Lewis at: love. Nor is it the trivial reckoning of a small tradesman: Give me and I shall give you. My prayer is the report of a soldier to his general: This is what I did today, this is how I fought to save the entire battle in my own sector, these are the obstacles I found, this is how I plan to fight tomorrow. My God and I are horsemen galloping in the burning sun or under drizzling rain. Pale, starving, but unsubdued, we ride and converse. "Leader!" I cry. He turns his face towards me, and I shudder to confront his anguish. Clinton knew of 911 attacks 290You have a credible news source for your figure of 30,000 end every year by Saddam? Iraqi civilians have suffered the bulk of baneities in this conflict... Our love for each other is rough and ready, we sit at the same table, we drink the same wine in this low tavern of life. -----From THE SAVIORS OF GOD: SPIRITUAL EXERCISES by Nikos Kazantzakis
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